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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for a performance, efficiency or mileage advantage for your Kawasaki Ninja EX250? Something to ignite the best combustion event possible? If the answer to either of these questions is yes and your reading about Takai's performance ignition coils and components you are at the right place. Takai products release and harness the most energy, every combustion event for the smoothest running and highest output engines available.

Takai engineers have developed the highest output / highly compact coil on plug unit for the Kawasaki Ninja 250.
Using the latest innovations developed and released for all out performance venues, TAKAI has redefined high performance ignition coil design by increasing output characteristics while reducing size and weight restrictions. Through this TAKAI has also developed an array of coil on plug conversion kits for stock applications that are using a separate ignition coil and wire to maximize the benefit and enhance the engines power delivery!



http://www.takai-racing.com/takai/t...aki-super-coils-ninja-250-ex250-99-p-404.html

TAKAI is a leader in electronic performance systems and provides cutting edge technology DIRECT to the powersport enthusiast.
PERFORMANCE RACING EQUIPMENT - TAKAI IGNITION
 

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anyone know what stock coil output is?
will a upgrade ignite the diesel any faster?
I herd if not carefull the muffler bearing with rotate backwards.
That will really effect tire pressures for sure...:whistling::whistling:








 

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Does anyone here have any useful or personal information on these? Please keep the... "muffler bearing" comments to yourselves. I'm really interested in knowing what these do on an N/A combination and am just asking around to see if anyone else has some personal experience with this product.

I did some research and found on ninjette.org someone picked up +5hp from 10000rpm to 13000 rpm on a darkhorse racing tuned / highly modified nitrous ninja 250 so they obviously work great in a highly modified engine. I'm just wondering what the returns would be in an NA setup. If I could pick up a couple hp, and gain some mileage, it might be better than picking up that exhaust system I'm eyeballing.
 

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"muffler bearing" comments to yourselves.......:facepalm::facepalm:
Dam......:flowers::flowers:
How u feel now...:whistling::whistling:
Hey anyone out there got some......
Usefull info for the dude here?.......:eek::eek:
Anyone......:rolleyes::rolleyes:








 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
....I did some research and found on ninjette.org someone picked up +5hp from 10000rpm to 13000 rpm on a darkhorse racing tuned / highly modified nitrous ninja 250 so they obviously work great in a highly modified engine. I'm just wondering what the returns would be in an NA setup. If I could pick up a couple hp, and gain some mileage, it might be better than picking up that exhaust system I'm eyeballing.
The 5 HP Racer X picked up was from the nitrous. The coils helped the plugs fire better and more consistently at the higher rpms he was pushing. His stock coils could not keep up and the voltage would degrade. These coils essentially help the spark jump the gap better while proving consistent voltage.

If you are running a stock bike for everyday commuting and an occasional high speed run, Iridium Spark Plugs may offer a small boost in efficiency, and better starts. Better combustion most times equates to better performance. In some bike an actual 1-2% increase in HP has been seen when using iridium plugs.
 

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Earl... probably the worst part about forums is the fact that some people use it as an outlet, when it's suppose to be for people to share useful information. Something clearly lacking in your comments. Thanks for your words of infinite wisdom but again... I would prefer if you kept your comments to yourself.

Thanks for your information Blue Ghost. Wondering if iridium plugs show gains, that is essentially the same as a higher power ignition unit... wouldn't it? Is it possible for cumulative gains?
 

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Earl... probably the worst part about forums is the fact that some people use it as an outlet, when it's suppose to be for people to share useful information. Something clearly lacking in your comments. Thanks for your words of infinite wisdom but again... I would prefer if you kept your comments to yourself.

Thanks for your information Blue Ghost. Wondering if iridium plugs show gains, that is essentially the same as a higher power ignition unit... wouldn't it? Is it possible for cumulative gains?

:whistling::whistling::whistling:








 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
.... Wondering if iridium plugs show gains, that is essentially the same as a higher power ignition unit... wouldn't it? Is it possible for cumulative gains?
No, not really. The stock coils will not put out voltage as consistently as higher output ignitions in certain instances. What the plugs will do is use less voltage to put out a better quality spark compared to the stock plugs. The gain will come from how well the fuel that is used, is burned, also timing.

For example; if you have bad/weak gas, it does not matter how big the spark is. The fuel won't have the energy. Even if you ran methanol or E85, and it's not jetted right, it's not effective and may not burn.

The better fuel burns, the better the combustion, which could result in potential HP, but on the Ninja it may be at the top of the rev range and you've probably have to see it on the dyno. Keep in mind, that getting past the 30 HP barrier has been the goal of many Ninja 250 owners in the last several years. Only a few have successfully done it, however with much modification.
 

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No, not really. The stock coils will not put out voltage as consistently as higher output ignitions in certain instances. What the plugs will do is use less voltage to put out a better quality spark compared to the stock plugs. The gain will come from how well the fuel that is used, is burned.

For example; if you have bad/weak gas, it does not matter how big the spark is. The fuel won't have the energy. Even if you ran methanol or E85, and it's not jetted right, it's not effective and may not burn.

The better fuel burns, the better the combustion, which could result in potential HP, but on the Ninja it may be at the top of the rev range and you've probably have to see it on the dyno. Keep in mind, that getting past the 30 HP barrier has been the goal of many Ninja 250 owners in the last several years. Only a few have successfully done it, however with much modification.
Thanks for your info Blue Ghost, I always enjoy listening to others stance on the subject. I used your notes for ammo while talking to a tech there. I'm an electrician so I took some notes. :) Let me know your thoughts. I'm on the fence but everything the guy said made allot of sense to me.

He agreed with you on the iridium front. Explaining... it takes less voltage to fire the spark with an iridium spark plug. That in turn means more energy remains in the ignition coil to sustain the spark. (voltage and current = total energy) Said, it's not the voltage that makes power it's the burn time that makes a higher quality spark, as you said. So the higher the voltage has to be to start the spark, the less the remaining energy to sustain spark duration in the combustion chamber. He said the reason iridium plugs see a power return is because the spark remains lit for more of the combustion cycle. Hence... more time into the process of releasing energy from fuel "CAN" release more engine horsepower if it is available. Typically having a longer lit spark means you can light more fuel and return more power. Made allot of sense to me.

On the coil front he also generally agreed with you on that with one difference being efficiency. From what I remember instead of using less energy to fire the spark, the coil is designed to have anywhere from 15 - 35%?? more efficiency depending on the competitor coil. This means the coil itself will deliver the same voltages, more if required, and have extra energy available to sustain the spark event. Not because the coil has a higher voltage capability, but because the coil itself is more efficient at delivering energy to the spark gap. That in turn allows the spark to stay lit longer, and again the longer it is lit, the more energy that can be released. Like iridium.

All I thought was, power in = power out.

The guy seemed pretty smart and confident in the product... hats off to Takai for that. I don't typically get these responses from run of the mill companies. Hmmmm...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If I were spending a lot of time in the high rpm range and was using bigger jets (more fuel) and racing the bike, I would probably look into getting the coils myself, but I think the Iridium Plugs do a good job at better utilizing the voltage provided by the stock coils, for everyday normal riding along with the average sized jets (96-112) used by most modders.

The tech sounds like he did a better job than I did at explaining the whole thing. I think the info here will be useful to anybody the had questions about coils and plugs.

I credit Racer X for schooling me about these Takai stick coils and the stock coils and how they were affecting his performance.

What I'd like to see is how much power is gained with the Takai coils and Iridium plugs when paired with the BRT i-DTIS (timing changes) on a mildly modded Ninja 250.
 

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If I were spending a lot of time in the high rpm range and was using bigger jets (more fuel) and racing the bike, I would probably look into getting the coils myself, but I think the Iridium Plugs do a good job at better utilizing the voltage provided by the stock coils, for everyday normal riding along with the average sized jets (96-112) used by most modders.

The tech sounds like he did a better job than I did at explaining the whole thing. I think the info here will be useful to anybody the had questions about coils and plugs.

I credit Racer X for schooling me about these Takai stick coils and the stock coils and how they were affecting his performance.

What I'd like to see is how much power is gained with the Takai coils and Iridium plugs when paired with the BRT i-DTIS (timing changes) on a mildly modded Ninja 250.
+1 on all accounts. I never thought they would have made any difference before. But RacerX opened my eyes and why I am digging around and asking. The info gathered between you, RacerX and Takai makes allot of sense... That said, thanks for the input Blue Ghost, it is appreciated. I'm already using iridium plugs, I'm just looking for any extra edge I can get since I am looking for performance / mileage improvements.

If anybody else has any real world feedback on the 250 let me know.

I am gonna dig a bit more, but I found a couple other tests where bikes saw about 1hp per coil on near stock applications. But that was on a Yamaha Vmax and a ZX14.

Hmmm... might give them a shot...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
....I am gonna dig a bit more, but I found a couple other tests where bikes saw about 1hp per coil on near stock applications. But that was on a Yamaha Vmax and a ZX14.

Hmmm... might give them a shot...
You can gain about 2 hp just removing the snorkel and installing a Pipercross filter. A 1 HP gain on the Ninja won't show up until about 11-11.5k rpm (not worth $400 bucks in coils IMO)

What you need to do is either change your carb and increase your jet size, change the timing and increase your rev limit to get more than 30-31 HP. The best way to effectively get than 30 HP is up the compression by changing pistons.
 

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You can gain about 2 hp just removing the snorkel and installing a Pipercross filter. A 1 HP gain on the Ninja won't show up until about 11-11.5k rpm (not worth $400 bucks in coils IMO)

What you need to do is either change your carb and increase your jet size, change the timing and increase your rev limit to get more than 30-31 HP. The best way to effectively get than 30 HP is up the compression by changing pistons.
Thanks for the input. I have done jetting but will look at the filter and snorkel mods. Every little bit helps. :)

For cost, I have already paid more then that on an exhaust and got pretty much nothing in return... maybe lost some mileage. :( Right now I am looking for actual test data on these. IMHO, and take this for what it's worth, Racer X squashed my old mindset of "a spark is a spark". This clearly is not the case and there is more to meet the eye. Idk, the more I dig for dyno data the more the coils show gains across the rev range on stock bikes, not jut at max rpm so I'm not gonna make any more assumptions on what I will or wont gain as I have done in the past with iridium plugs. It's a mistake.

At this point, I believe there are allot of misconceptions in regards to spark events. I called a dealer about supposed dynos they did to verify and got an offer. They said, try them out, if they work, keep them, if not send them back and we will give you a full refund. I have nothing to loose and at this point I am open to giving them a shot. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
....Thanks for the input. I have done jetting but will look at the filter and snorkel mods. Every little bit helps. :)
What size jets did you do? Snorkel mod affects 1/4 - 3/4 throttle, the filter the full range. Just about any after market drop in filter, will flow better than stock. My stock filter started to compress. Kawi says replace it after 2 years. That should say something


.....For cost, I have already paid more then that on an exhaust and got pretty much nothing in return... maybe lost some mileage.
That's the trade off when you go up jets sizes, go to a full exhaust & chasing more HP. Gas mileage takes a hit. A 3-4 HP gain and a little bit of torque is about what you get for a full exhaust.

Please make sure you post up any data you get on these coils. Should be interesting.
 

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What size jets did you do? Snorkel mod affects 1/4 - 3/4 throttle, the filter the full range. Just about any after market drop in filter, will flow better than stock. My stock filter started to compress. Kawi says replace it after 2 years. That should say something
I had the local dealer do the jetting on the bike after the exhaust, only God knows what was put in, one thing I never mess with are carbs. All in all the setup cost me allot for 3hp. $650 plus $275 in jetting / filter and exhaust install.

At that time a new filter was put in because they said it's best to jet with a clean filter. Probably an up sell.. but.. at the time I looked at the aftermarket one on the shelf. Looking close I could physically look through small holes in it... that IMO is a problem and I wasn't a fan of. I bought a new stock filter. Since then I have been hesitant to jump on the high performance filter bandwagon but will look to see if there are any alternatives. IMHO higher flowing also means... bigger openings and more dirt. Looking close at a filter I should not be able to see who or what is on the other side, I will sacrifice the 1 hp for an engine with no debris in it. But that is my opinion, I will look more to see what I come up with. :)

That's the trade off when you go up jets sizes, go to a full exhaust & chasing more HP. Gas mileage takes a hit. A 3-4 HP gain and a little bit of torque is about what you get for a full exhaust.

Please make sure you post up any data you get on these coils. Should be interesting.
Yeah... I guess your right... never something for nothing! I will let you know what happens on the coil front. Still snow on the ground here but will have info as soon as it clears up!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
....I had the local dealer do the jetting on the bike after the exhaust, only God knows what was put in,

At that time a new filter was put in because they said it's best to jet with a clean filter. Probably an up sell.. but.. at the time I looked at the aftermarket one on the shelf. Looking close I could physically look through small holes in it... that IMO is a problem and I wasn't a fan of. I bought a new stock filter. Since then I have been hesitant to jump on the high performance filter bandwagon but will look to see if there are any alternatives. IMHO higher flowing also means... bigger openings and more dirt. Looking close at a filter I should not be able to see who or what is on the other side, I will sacrifice the 1 hp for an engine with no debris in it. But that is my opinion, I will look more to see what I come up with.
If they put in the Dyno jet 2193 kit they should have used DJ098 main jets and taken the snorkel out.

There's only a handful of aftermarket drop in filters for the Nija 250 and all of them use a tacky dirt retentive oil of some kind. The filter is not the real filter, the oil is. The filter holds the oil and traps the bigger particles.

I went with the filter that has 3 stages / levels of filtration, is the OEM filter on Triumph Motorcycles, had the best reputation in WSBK and an Official partner for the 250 & 600 Ninja Trophy Cup races and supported by Kawasaki.
 

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If they put in the Dyno jet 2193 kit they should have used DJ098 main jets and taken the snorkel out.

There's only a handful of aftermarket drop in filters for the Nija 250 and all of them use a tacky dirt retentive oil of some kind. The filter is not the real filter, the oil is. The filter holds the oil and traps the bigger particles.

I went with the filter that has 3 stages / levels of filtration, is the OEM filter on Triumph Motorcycles, had the best reputation in WSBK and an Official partner for the 250 & 600 Ninja Trophy Cup races and supported by Kawasaki.
Thanks for the input with the jets, I am going to see if I can find out. Could be they botched it up as I didn't see much of a power gain. To be honest, I noticed more with the iridium plugs.

Which filter did you go with? It sounds like the ticket!

I think the one I was looking at was a K&N. I hear what your saying with the oil. Still... scares me to see gaps in the filter, even with oil there it would bug me as your relying on physical contact from any incoming dirt to the oil so it holds dirt in place. If there is no even spray of oil, or if the oil gets too much dirt on it, those holes could allow excess dirt through. I wouldn't use a filter like that for my oil so, imho, I won't for air. That's just my opinion though, and I do tend to over analyse things sometimes. :) I'm really anal about true functionality / performance vs cost. Has to have high marks for the best of all worlds.
 

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Just to clarify what Blue said.
When I went on the dyno and started tuning I had great results to about 45-48 hp.When I would really push it, the power flattened out at top RPM. and I could feel a chugging. Giving more nitrous and fuel did not make more power. But it ran fine a lower levels. That ended a ten hour dyno session.

We had to figure out what was going on. After some research it was determined the stock coils could not bridge the gap when the cylinder pressure was very high. That means the plug does not fire when it should. This late firing of the plug retards the timing and KILLS power.
All I did was install the Takai coils. Using all the supplied hardware. I went back on the dyno. The engine never did the chugging again. That allowed us to add more nitrous and fuel and get the engine to the 55 hp I needed.
The coils are first class all the way. Very high quality. They are also the cutting edge in coil technology. The use something called carbon nano tube technology. And some secret stuff.
 
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