Kawasaki Ninja Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am curious as to what the timing advance is on the 2004 ninja 250 particularly in the upper rpm range. I am looking at an offest woodruff key to advance or retard the timing even more in order to get some more power up top. Any imput is appreciated

Thanks

Kevin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,480 Posts
42 degrees BTDC @ 4500 rpm
Using the offset key changes the timing thru the whole rev range. Are you racing this bike?

You don't want to simply "advance" the timing curve on an pre-gen. The factory curve delivers descent characteristics from idle to redline. The CDI is programmed to spark at 13 degrees BTDC at idle and it graduates to 42 degrees BTDC at 4,200rpm and remains at that advance for the remainder of the engine's operating RPMs.

Any big change (shift) of the factory curve would leave the engine with bad performance somewhere in it's RPM band.

Unless you are raising your compression (new pistons, full exhaust, race carbs), 42 degrees can be a lot. Other than that there's not a lot you can do on first gen bikes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,088 Posts
Welcome quaterliter!

Give us some info about yourself and post a photo of your bike in the New Member Introduction section.

Kevin? That sounds vaguely familiar...


Jay
Kevin..... OOoo boy were in 4 it now......:facepalm::facepalm:
THe Kevin i know is still spose to be in jail 4 murder....:eek::eek:
Sure hope he ain't here looking for city in the country....:nonono::nonono:
Or that Indian Ho-Ho dude #7....:whistling::whistling:
I think i mentioned to him u guys were picking on me....:thumb::thumb:








 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am hoping to raise the compression.... probably going to take the head off when I'm doing the valve adjustment at 500 miles because it is pretty far apart then. And Blue Ghost I am not racing but I wish I was ;) Honestly I'm just looking for some high rpm power because that is where the power on this bike is anyways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,088 Posts
I am hoping to raise the compression.... probably going to take the head off when I'm doing the valve adjustment at 500 miles because it is pretty far apart then. And Blue Ghost I am not racing but I wish I was ;) Honestly I'm just looking for some high rpm power because that is where the power on this bike is anyways.

High end power back at ya......:thumb::thumb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL5Jt5fPuyk








 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,088 Posts
A 9 minutes Ninja Turtle video! My life is complete! But seriously would advancing or retarding the time change power output in the upper rpm range?
But seriously.... I don't really know?
:whistling::whistling:
But give it a while n one of the Ninjas will come along n tell u more....:thumb::thumb:

OOOoooooo Ninja people.......Someone want's to know.....
Min...... I'll do my ninja ask info dance.....
Back in a bit.....:whistling::whistling:








 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,480 Posts
.... But seriously would advancing or retarding the time change power output in the upper rpm range?
Like I said before, any big change from the factory curve would leave the engine with bad performance somewhere in it's RPM band, mainly the lower rpms. The ideal solution would be to find a programmable CDI where you can adjust the timing map for certain rpms. Unfortunately there is not on made for the pre gen, however there is one made for the new gen. Not sure if it works on the pre gen though. It may require you to mod the stock wiring harness though. There are not too many people doing it cause it's not common nor beneficial for regular street riding.

The BRT i-DTIS

  • Holds two ignition maps.
  • The programmable model includes a remote controller used to program the unit in 30-step increments.
  • Redline rpm can be custom set with the programmable model.

If your are looking for a little more power in the upper rpm range and raising your compression, new pistons, full exhaust, race carbs, porting and polishing will get you what you are looking for. I believe 44 degrees has been the max advance, but that has been done to a new gen engine that also runs nitrous. Timing on the new gen is 35 degrees, so you can see how much you have to play with there. Keep in mind you're only going to get 3-4 more HP by doing any of this (out side nitrous or race fuel)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
I am hoping to raise the compression.... probably going to take the head off when I'm doing the valve adjustment at 500 miles because it is pretty far apart then. And Blue Ghost I am not racing but I wish I was ;) Honestly I'm just looking for some high rpm power because that is where the power on this bike is anyways.
Or how about a nice bright red valve cover at your 500mi check and skip the rest? Save your money for a SV650 or something faster like that.

Racing? How fast do you want to spend? You know how to make a small fortune in racing...


Jay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Exhausts are expensive and there is not much gain to be had. For example are P isnt even making an exhaust for the new ninja 300 because they saw no significant gain with their system to warrant selling the product. As far as intake I have not gone to pod filters but have taken the mesh screen out and did some other intake modifications such as removing the imperfections from the intake snorkel and possibly later with dyno access tuning, shorten the length of those stacks. Look at modern race bikes none of them have pod filters all use an airbox....Pod filters draw warm air right behind the engine so in theory an airbox drawing from a cool source would perform better. And jkv45 sv650s are expensive to ensure for a 16 year old. Plus there a bit top heavy for a small fry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,088 Posts
Exhausts are expensive and there is not much gain to be had. For example are P isnt even making an exhaust for the new ninja 300 because they saw no significant gain with their system to warrant selling the product. As far as intake I have not gone to pod filters but have taken the mesh screen out and did some other intake modifications such as removing the imperfections from the intake snorkel and possibly later with dyno access tuning, shorten the length of those stacks. Look at modern race bikes none of them have pod filters all use an airbox....Pod filters draw warm air right behind the engine so in theory an airbox drawing from a cool source would perform better. And jkv45 sv650s are expensive to ensure for a 16 year old. Plus there a bit top heavy for a small fry.
Just buy a 10r n be done with it....
That should be enough speed 4 ya....:thumb:








 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,480 Posts
Exhausts are expensive and there is not much gain to be had. For example area P isnt even making an exhaust for the new ninja 300 because they saw no significant gain with their system to warrant selling the product.
Sorry, but that is completely false. They are having a group buy sale on exhaust for both the 300 and 250 exhaust.
Area P/Fuel Moto FI Micro Tuners for Ninja 300
Area P Dyno Charts
Area P Exhaust for the Ninja 300
Kawasaki Ninja 300 Slip-On Exhaust - Area P :: No Limits


.... As far as intake I have not gone to pod filters but have taken the mesh screen out and did some other intake modifications such as removing the imperfections from the intake snorkel and possibly later with dyno access tuning, shorten the length of those stacks. Look at modern race bikes none of them have pod filters all use an airbox....Pod filters draw warm air right behind the engine so in theory an airbox drawing from a cool source would perform better.


The performance of airboxes compared to pod filters has more to due with resonance and air flow than it does air temp. Hot air is hot air whether it is inside an airbox or outside. The cooling effect of the air happens as air it enters the carb throat as it speeds up.

There is a mod that can be done to the airbox lid. You can open up the lid by removing the stacks and opening up the hole wider. You may need to up your jet size and shim the needles when you do this. Just shortening the stacks don't do much.




Also, if you are running stock sprockets (14/45), changing to 15/43 will add about 10 mph on the top end.

Resonant Airboxes: Theory and Applications

How Constant Velocity Carburetors Work
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/how_cv_carbs_work_v3.swf

Motorcycle Carburetor Theory 101
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8nSiz90rrfUSHVGV1JkRUR3eDg/edit?pli=1

Pipe Jetting (A Must Read)
Pipe Jetting
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,088 Posts
Sorry, but that is completely false. They are having a group buy sale on exhaust for both the 300 and 250 exhaust.
Area P/Fuel Moto FI Micro Tuners for Ninja 300
Area P Dyno Charts
Area P Exhaust for the Ninja 300
Kawasaki Ninja 300 Slip-On Exhaust - Area P :: No Limits






The performance of airboxes compared to pod filters has more to due with resonance and air flow than it does air temp. Hot air is hot air whether it is inside an airbox or outside. The cooling effect of the air happens as air it enters the carb throat as it speeds up.

There is a mod that can be done to the airbox lid. You can open up the lid by removing the stacks and opening up the hole wider. You may need to up your jet size and shim the needles when you do this. Just shortening the stacks don't do much.




Also, if you are running stock sprockets (14/45), changing to 15/43 will add about 10 mph on the top end.

Resonant Airboxes: Theory and Applications

How Constant Velocity Carburetors Work
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/how_cv_carbs_work_v3.swf

Motorcycle Carburetor Theory 101
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8nSiz90rrfUSHVGV1JkRUR3eDg/edit?pli=1

Pipe Jetting (A Must Read)
Pipe Jetting
WOW!!!! Sure glad i'm happy with what i got......:whistling::whistling:
I'd hate to make a mess of my airbox....
Guess i'm glad i'm happy with my girlieee 650....:thumb::thumb:








 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top