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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
BRT_TIS Two Map edition.. (200$)

Shinto Rear Hugger in Matte Black.. (175$)

Woodcraft Clipons.. (125$ up depending)

Shinto/Other anodized gold rearsets.. (185$-275$)


or a mixture of:

Slanted handlebar risers.. (80$)

Adjustable Clutch and Front Brake levers.. (175$)

SSR Rear Adjustable Lowering Links in anodized gold.. (45$)

SSR Front Adjustable Lowering Links (35$)

Upgraded Grips.. (40$)

Spool Sliders.. (20-35$)

Flushmount front signals.. (115$)



Most to spend.. 300$ total

If this were your pick, let me know what you would go with.

These are all things I would love to have, but as you would notice some replace others (e.g. woodcraft clipons would eliminate need for slanted handlebar risers etc.)

Post pictures and links if you know of anything else I may like in the price range, or a better quality/same price or cheaper brand of ;D ;D ;D ;D
Also, don't be afraid to post your mods you want to do and can't figure out what to do next, and I will likewise help you pick!

I hope this thread delivers an answer for me by Friday, September 24th, on what day i will be ordering. I will not order any later than Saturday, the 25th.


Thanks pals! ;D ;D ;D ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I guess you have a point, but trust me I wouldn't post a thread asking if I wasn't having a hard time deciding!

But really, I am interested mostly in the following:
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BRT_TIS

Rear Hugger

Woodcraft Clipons

Anodized Gold Levers


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From those four, try and help me pick! It doesn't matter so much which I get first, I feel I will get most of these eventually.
 

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The rear hugger might be a hard sell with your new bigger tyre, it really depends on what brand you are after. I know the Sportisi one may not fit unless your put spacers in there.....Never mind I just looked and you say you are after the shinto one, so that might be ok.

How about spending the money on getting the rest of you bike flat black, that way it all matches!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Felix said:
BRT_TIS

And flush mounts... I know its not on the list, but those things are like dogs balls on a cat!

Felix
I lol'd, witty bastid'!

Yes, you are right though, the stock fronts are horrendous looking and on top of it my left signal stopped working about two weeks ago due to a wire getting split when it snapped off during my little 'spill' on the gravel road I tried to turn around on;

So i have messaged the guy about the BRT_TIS as it says you need to do on the site and hopefully he can set me up a paypal buy ASAP, but I decided the flush mounts and BRT_TIS is the way I will go. So thank you all for your feedback! :)

I think it is a good idea, sort of like a mixture of performance, practicality and looks packed into one buy.
 

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that's before the deadline! :p

Hope you enjoy your new parts! I was going to ask, why do you have to spend the money? I mean, why not save it for when you need it. As you become a better rider, you'll find things which you need to enhance your experience. For instance, what I didn't see on your list, is a set of gold valves for the front forks, and I can tell you, they make the single biggest difference of any one part on your bike, to the total riding experience! Not pointing the finger or critiquing you or your decision, just saying, ya know?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
spooph said:
that's before the deadline! :p

Hope you enjoy your new parts! I was going to ask, why do you have to spend the money? I mean, why not save it for when you need it. As you become a better rider, you'll find things which you need to enhance your experience. For instance, what I didn't see on your list, is a set of gold valves for the front forks, and I can tell you, they make the single biggest difference of any one part on your bike, to the total riding experience! Not pointing the finger or critiquing you or your decision, just saying, ya know?
Wow, to be honest, I don't even know what those are or do. That is mainly why, I suppose, is despite all of the literature I will try to read on mechanics of motorcycles, diy installations, diy servicing, I still lack a huge bit of knowledge to know what is best for me. I do not have any problem admitting that, either. I hope to one day become more familiar with everything and make more informed decisions, but the money to spend now is basically because since I went nuts and did all of the 'normal' mods listed in my profile, I left her pretty much blank.

I recently got paid a lump sum check with no tax taken out for participating in a special-ed assistant job/program for last spring semester as SCSU. I paid my bills for this month, put enough away for the next few months through winter and the beginning of March, and the leftover I wanted to dedicate to my bike.

Firstly, I got rid of the stock tire for the Battlax BT016 150/60-17. Next, I fully serviced my chain and replaced my rear sprocket due to a small chip I found on one of the teeth that would make a very distinct 'clicking' noise. I changed my oil and filter, readjusted and lubed my clutch cable and checked for any wear, and then flushed out my coolant and added some brand new dealer-issued stuff that I am able to top off as I go. I also repainted my HMF pipe to more of a flat black after sanding down the scratches and scuffs from my spill.

So, i guess the short answer, I got paid for the first time in a long while, and want to treat my bike well as it is the hobby I pick to spend the majority of my time on when I do get time off school.

Care to explain what these gold valves do, and where I may find a pair? I do wish to learn, and I know you are VERY experienced with motorcycles just from the questions you've answered for me, and guides you've sent to others.. not to mention the complete restoration of Loser for Felix's cameo appearance in the States!

Even shorter story: I DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT MY OWN BIKE TO UNDERSTAND MORE THAN WHAT I READ ON GUIDES, RATINGS, AND SUGGESTIONS- AND HAVE VERY LITTLE HANDS-ON HELP SORT OF LEARNING FROM ANYONE, BUT I DO WISH TO SOAK IT ALL UP LIKE A NEW, DRY SPONGE!

Enlighten me :)

Update: The BRT_TIS was ordered, 180$ to my door since Matt at Sportisi Moto USA had to order them today and will receive them next week. he knocked off fifteen bucks like a gold old gent'.
 

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Awesome Blackout, glad you could treat the bike to a good time. It's nice to have everything working just the way it should, eh? Glad you made your decision. You sound like a rate-A kind of guy, a person I can look up to, a role model if you will... Anyway, ass-kissing aside, feel free to ask the questions, and stop apologizing for not knowing, eh? I'll be happy to answer what I can, and know, and try and steer you in the right direction if I don't. FYI - In middle school I started learning about engines, etc, instead of doing homework. My parents have always tried to keep me away from the internal combustion, but I was just pulled towards them. It takes a long time to build up a real foundation in this kind of stuff, as I'm sure it is with anything in life. Take yo time. Read a lot, and ask a lot of questions. Right off the bat, I can point you to www.howstuffworks.comhttp://. That's where I learned how all the basic sub systems on a motor vehicle work.

To answer your questions. A shock absorber/fork/strut-and-spring do one thing, keep your tire on the ground. The 250's stock valves are just 2 hole drilled into the dampening cylinder. The "dampening" these holes offer happens by simply restricting the flow of oil, offering resistance. When the wheel hits something on the road, the oil is forced through the hole and designed to slow the wheel down while it's traveling up from the bump. The spring is designed to push the fork back out/down onto the road. If the wheel travels over a rut, etc, the wheel is meant to hug the contours of the road, which means the spring needs to be weak enough to give the wheel some play downward from it's "resting" state. It needs to be right in the middle while it sits there.... Or something like that, this is for illustration. Without getting too deep into it, having the correct setup of oil viscosity, dampening hole sizes and spring weights helps keep your tire on the ground the best.

Gold-valves is an after market addition you drop into the fork, between the dampening piston and spring, which acts as your dampening valves. It has cool journals cut into it, and has 2 parts held together by a spring which actuate the valve, and open/close more/less/differently shaped journals/holes as needed by different types of surfaces. It's not really reversible, because you disable the dampening piston's holes by drilling them out, and drilling more holes into the piston. You'd have to get a new piston (this is for the forks, not the engine), to reverse the procedure. With a set of these the bike dives significantly less under hard braking, and makes the tires just plain stick to the road. Mo questions? Enjoy that BRT-TIS!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Haha Spooph, I am no saint, and my ass needs no servicing by your lips :-*

Thank you for spending the time for answering in terms I was able to, at least I think I was able to, understand.

SO A BREAKDOWN OF WHAT I *THINK* I AM BEGINNING TO GRASP:

Right now, the front suspension is really nothing more than the forks using drilled out holes in the dampening, acting as..plugs? ..to create some sort of 'pocket' of oil that weighs down on the front wheel? Or I suppose doesn't weigh down on anything but the stock spring, forcing the dampening spring to push more or less down on the front wheel?

By using these gold valve and dropping them into the forks, you are increasing flow to the fork pistons themselves and taking the stock dampening system completely out of the picture? Therefore adding bottoming resistance and some plushness to the front suspension?

Hope I am on the right track here. Funny thing is, you explain something completely new to me in a way I can understand, and when I try to explain it to you/myself in a reply, I barely understand what I just wrote ::)


I am just a wee twenty year old guy trying to find things that truly interest me in this world, and grab bits and pieces along the way to help me out. Thank you for letting me pick at your brain, I am sure a few more long posts will be needed to get me to grasp the concept fully. I went online looking for any pictures of an install but was more or less unsuccessful.

Does the installation of these involve draining your fork oil/taking the forks and removing everything they are attached to so you can deal strictly with them? Special tools, etc.? Basically, is this something that would be safer having done by a shop with a good reputation?
 

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um, nope, I think you're looking at it too broadly. Let me get a bit more specific with each separate thing. sorry, I don't have a better source, but check out this page:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-suspension2.htm

And work with me here. Erase the green thing. Flip the image over in your mind, and imagine the "Piston Rod" as the fork tube (the top tube in your forks), not the dampener body (the lower, black thing attached to the wheel).

If you do those things with your imagination, you essentially have a fork with the gold-valves installed.

Here is the diagram to show you what it looks like stock:

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/2008-kawasaki-motorcycle-ex250j8f-ninja-250r-front-fork/o/m17215sch550356

Part 44023 is the thing that does all the dampening. You can just see on the bottom of the tube a little hole. It has another one opposite it.

The dampening happens by forcing a thick fluid (fork oil), through these 2 holes. You could remove all dampening from the forks by draining the oil, for then there would be no fluid to give some resistance. You could have some dampening by putting water in the forks, but you'd rust a bunch of stuff up.... You can increase the dampening (how quickly the fork absorbs the shock, or rather, how far it has to travel to absorb the shock) by going to a thicker oil (w10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, etc).

Gokay, so, moving a fluid from one part to another implies that there are 2 places, or reservoirs where the fluid is stored, correct? So, it's not just a straight line, but the boundary is that part 44023. The inside and upward into the top tube is area 1, and the outside and below in the dampener body is area 2, and those 2 little holes allow fluid from area 1 and area 2.

So, installing the gold valves, you drill those holes out more than twice their size, and add 4 more holes, the same large size as you enlarged the stock sized hole to. This basically allows fluid to flow so freely that the holes offer no resistance, and therefor no dampening. This allows the gold valve to do it's job.

This is really hard to explain without taking my forks apart and taking pictures for you. So once you got this idea, we'll move onto how the gold valve actually works and why it's better than just changing springs rates, fork oil, or messing with the stock hole sizes.

To answer your q's, yes, you have to completely disassemble the forks, drain the oil, etc, and to do that, you have to remove them from the bike. It's not that difficult, but you do need a second set of hands to help you out. So, it depends how adventurous you want to get. I could do a write-up (I have to set my valves for winter - colder temperatures = "looser" settings), so I could take the pics then.... Although ninjette.org prolly has a write-up on how to change the fork seals, and you'd get all the pics there you'd need. If we were closer, I would've been all over a coffee date to explain all this to you, it's a bit more difficult through the computer, but I'll try my best.

Here's more info: http://old.racetech.com/popupwindow/GoldValveCartridgeEmulators.asp

And this is GOLD: http://www.racetech.com/articles/CartridgeForks.htm

Hit me with more q's...
 

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....or you could just get some adjustable Showa BPF like on my '09 zx6r....
lol sorry, couldn't resist.

I rekon you chose wisely with regards to chosing what to spend your $$ on. And Spooph, your knowledge and freely given advise never ceases to amaze. You da man! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok, wow do I feel enlightened.

I read the article on racetech, and checked the awesome link diagraming everything (just what I needed). Bookmarked as well!

I feel I have a firm grasp of how this all works now, or rather how the stock dampening works right now. I see now that at least one of the points of the gold valves is to eliminate that stock dampening system so that a different approach, of a more reliable and preferred nature like the cartridge forks, can be used to make the bike less harsh when it needs to be or more harsh when it needs to be.

Sounds like by the read on racetech the dampening rod forks we are stuck with in a stock setup sound pretty inadequate.

Now, if you don't mind, lets say we have gotten to the point where the gold valves are in, stock holes drilled out, and oil can pass freely from top to bottom in the fork as a whole. How do the new gold valves work to make the magic?
 

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flushmounts on the ninja are sickkkk, almost like they are supposed to be there instead of the stock ones ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yeah I really do like the proton ones, but.I went and got cf/aluminum slider spools because that is something I really needed moreso for safety and for my rear stand. Now I'm trying to figure out if doing these gold valve upgrades is something I can handle, if not I am going to get a pair of shorty adjustable racing levers
 

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thx SWE37!

Blackout - Right oh, so I'm assuming from you having read the articles you read about slow-speed and high-speed dampening, and that cartridge forks, or emulators are designed to help adjust for both. speed based on the rate at which the wheel is forced up by bumps, not necessarily how quickly you're riding....

So you go over a big bump and it's a "high-speed" dampening situation. The wheel is forced up with a quickness. You need a dampner that will allow more flow so you can dampen the force, instead of just having a solid rod and bouncing the front end all over the place. Then, once that high-speed bump has been absorbed, you want even more flow to quickly return the wheel back down to the ground. If the suspension is set up correctly, your tire will never leave the ground, and will follow the contours up and down as they come. So the gold valve is a 2-part valve, which can seperate from one another, and are held together by a spring. The first valve looks like a disk, the second, like a really fat disc. When the valve is "closed", it has a few small holes in it. When it's "open", it has 3 MASSIVE holes in it. So, your wheel hits the big bump and gets shoved up. It forces fluid up through the valves, and because of the spring, the valves opens (maybe only partially) a bit bigger allowing the wheel to move up quicker. As the force gets diminished, the valve closes again (maybe only partially) and stiffens up the suspension. The big spring - the fork spring then forces the wheel back onto the ground, and your tire has never left contact with the ground. THis becomes more noticeable the faster you ride, and more so, the quicker you change direction on the ninja. When you flip the bike from one side to the other quickly, you actually unload the suspension at the top of the arch (when you and the bike is straight up and down), and re-compress the suspension when you go back into a turn. You don't want the suspension to unload too much, and become gooey, but you don't want it to stay so stiff that you skip your tire, or loose traction.

On a slow-speed bump, you're not moving as much fluid, which means you need more restriction (the gold valve being closed) to give you the same amount of dampening. Keep in mind, the spring rate and preload on the gold valve is where your adjustment comes from, and is what allows you to tune how stiff to make the suspension (and how dynamic to make the valve). Back the spring out all the way, and you have gooey suspension. Crank it all the way down, and it won't open at all, and you won't have any dampening. So, with those as the edges to the spectrum, you can then tweak and tune as you want, but you don't have to open the forks everytime you want to change the valve settings. You don't have to take them off the bike for this though, if you have one of these:

http://www.toolexperts.com/mechanical-pickup.html

With the stock setup you have a fixed hole size and count. 2 holes of about 4mm diameter, which means it restrict flow during high-speed bumps because the holes aren't big enough to flow enough fluid, and at slow-speed bump there is too much flow to dampen properly, making the bike feel squishy and sluggish. So they compromise, and go with slightly over-sized holes so the high-speed bumps are dampened as best as possible, being that this where the safety concern is biggest... Meaning, slow-speed bumps are almost not dampened at all, which yields massive dive when braking...

So, after all this, basically, the gold valves allow your suspension to do it's job better, and to you, it will seem stiffer, switch from side to side quicker, and diminish dive with a vengeance!
 
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