[SuperAmp13]

So I have a '12 and just installed a DanMoto Carbon GP slip on. This is the ONLY modification I have made to this bike. I have been scouring the forums and anything I can find, have extremely limited knowledge of motors and mechanic skills, however, I am picking up a lot of things as a result of this issue.

I rode the bike today for the first time with the new slip on. It was very cold this morning, and I instantly noticed that there was a massive amount of popping coming from the exhaust during decal. It became worse as the exhaust heated up. When I rode home, it was around 70 degrees, and the popping was worse, not only on Decel, but also when i clutched to shift it would pop each time.

I am learning that this, likely, means I am running lean, but some also say I could be running rich. Before the mod the bike was super poppy, but i also feel like i ran better in colder weather, since the warmer the weather, the higher the RPMs at the same speed. (Running at 80 mph I would run at 10,000rpm in colder weather, and 11,000 to 12,000 in warmer weather.) This, from what I understand is an indication that I was running rich.

Now, with all that said, my question to anyone out there is, how can I (without removing the Kleen Air System, because I've become aware that it is illegal and will keep me from passing inspection, not to mention has the potential to cause severe issues) eliminate the popping coming from the slip on? I know that the slip on is loose right now where the can meets the cuppler, so i need to seal that, but I can not see that eliminating the issue all together.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

 

[Blue Ghost]

The popping on decel comes when you quickly and completely close the throttle, doing so causes a lean condition. Ease the throttle closed.

One reason you hear it (popping) so well is because you have an empty tin can instead of a heavily baffled steel drum. The popping noise can be reduced by doing the kleen air delete mod (which you already know about), which stops the extra air entering into the already lean and hot exhaust.

Most people who have installed the Dan Moto exhaust have also shimmed the needles and removed the snorkel and kleen air system.

Removal of the kleen air system is only illegal if your bike has to have emissions testing and they look for it. The Dan Moto exhaust is not street legal (and most slip-ons for that fact) so it may not pass an inspection either if you live in California.

Unless you have an EFI bike, removal or plugging the kleen air is not harmful. Even then the sensors can be worked around. What the kleen air does is pull fresh air into the exhaust manifold after combustion.

 

[Zandit]

Hey Super, welcome to the site!
Take the time to introduce yourself and post some pics of your ride in the New Members section!

In regards to your query, check out this thread I posted way back in 2009. This will help with the popping, but not eliminate it completely. After that you may need to shim the carbies to get the fuel ratio correct which will also help.

http://www.newninja.com/forums/f98/kleen-air-system-removal-pic-heavy-update-4659.html

Read through the whole thread before doing the job, as there is a lot of discussion if this was both legal, and helpful to the bike. It has been a while since I done the job, and I no longer have the 250R, but I can certainly try to help you with any questions!

 

[Zandit]

Dammit Blue Ghost, You beat me again!

 

[SuperAmp13]

Well, first I am not sure, embarrassingly, if there is an emissions standard in MA for motorcycles. I never had to "take" my bike to be tested, but I am not sure if they did it in the shop. So that may mean that removing the Kleen Air would be legal then?

Zandit, did you ever experience any issues with the pressure in the motor? I am reading that is the biggest issue, along with having the catalytic converter still in tact in the stock header. Those are my biggest concerns.

I really get nervous making modifications to these bikes, not because I don't feel I can do it, but rather that it could turn into a seized engine or some significant problem that I would rather not have to spend hundreds of dollars on.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well, first I am not sure, embarrassingly, if there is an emissions standard in MA for motorcycles. I never had to "take" my bike to be tested, but I am not sure if they did it in the shop. So that may mean that removing the Kleen Air would be legal then?

Zandit, did you ever experience any issues with the pressure in the motor? I am reading that is the biggest issue, along with having the catalytic converter still in tact in the stock header. Those are my biggest concerns.

I really get nervous making modifications to these bikes, not because I don't feel I can do it, but rather that it could turn into a seized engine or some significant problem that I would rather not have to spend hundreds of dollars on.

According to the MA DMV, motorcycle have to submit to a yearly safety inspection. Enhanced Emission testing is for vehicles that have OBD. In accordance with AMENDMENTS TO 310 CMR 60.02,
-Tailpipe testing requirements for most vehicles that are not equipped with OBD would be deleted.

The kleen air system does not add any pressure to the engine or involves combustion. It is used to help pass EPA requirements. It adds a tiny amount of fresh air to the exhaust manifold so the exhaust gas does not appear to be to rich and contain too many contaminants. The system is designed to clean up the exhaust gases. Sort of a way to trick the system.

If you don't feel comfortable modifying the bike, don't deal with it and go back to the stock exhaust.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Dammit Blue Ghost, You beat me again!

Sorry....:flowers:

 

[SuperAmp13]

According to the MA DMV, motorcycle have to submit to a yearly safety inspection. Enhanced Emission testing is for vehicles that have OBD. In accordance with AMENDMENTS TO 310 CMR 60.02,
-Tailpipe testing requirements for most vehicles that are not equipped with OBD would be deleted.

The kleen air system does not add any pressure to the engine or involves combustion. It is used to help pass EPA requirements. It adds a tiny amount of fresh air to the exhaust manifold so the exhaust gas does not appear to be to rich and contain too many contaminants. The system is designed to clean up the exhaust gases. Sort of a way to trick the system.

If you don't feel comfortable modifying the bike, don't deal with it and go back to the stock exhaust.

Thank you, Blue! Your help is very much appreciated. So I was looking into the MA DMV as well and like you said, it looks like motorcycles are exempt from emissions tests, so removing the Kleen system wouldn't cause a rejection.

Can you clarify some of the things I am reading that discuss "dirty vapors" in the head that are emitted through a vacuum system into the air box that then go through the filter to relieve pressure? Is that not the Kleen system?

I feel comfortable making these mods, but I guess I try to be completely educated and confident before i start turning wrenches.

 

[Blue Ghost]

......Can you clarify some of the things I am reading that discuss "dirty vapors" in the head that are emitted through a vacuum system into the air box that then go through the filter to relieve pressure? Is that not the Kleen system?

This has nothing to do with the Kleen Air System.

The engine has a crank case breather tube connected to the bottom of the airbox. When the engine oil is heated it can produce vapors (much like steam but oily). If the vapors are not released they can pressure in the crankcase, so the vapors are siphoned off by the suction inside the airbox , the heavy oil drop into the bottom of the airbox and the air is sucked back into the carbs for combustion. It's not a large amount so there is no need to worry about it unless you over fill the engine oil, then some heavy amount of oil can possibly be pushed into the airbox. There is another drain tube on the bottom of the air box in case this happens.

 

[SuperAmp13]

Great thanks. So have you heard anything about it clogging the cat? Being that I only changed the can, I assume I still have one cat in tact. I have heard it both ways, that removing the Kleen system will clog the cat and cause problems.

 

[Zandit]

I never had any issues with the bike, both before and after the mods I done on the Dragon(That's what I named my 250R!). http://www.newninja.com/forums/f98/zandits-mods-enter-the-dragon-update-6-a-4717.html
My 250R was a beast of a bike, and I wish we still had it some times!

 

[Blue Ghost]

Great thanks. So have you heard anything about it clogging the cat? Being that I only changed the can, I assume I still have one cat in tact. I have heard it both ways, that removing the Kleen system will clog the cat and cause problems.

Nope! Not one instance. If something that potentially catastrophic was a problem it would have happened already and it would be a huge topic on every motorcycle forum. Even if you run leaded gas, (which you should not with a cat in a modern engine designed to run unleaded) you'd have to run a large amount for years. In order to melt the honeycombs cataylist in the exhaust the exhaust temps would probably need to remain higher than 1400 degree which is the max cylinder temp. Normal cylinder operating temp is well below that and exhaust gas even lower. I really doubt that Kawasaki has been designing a POS bike for 30 years and been successful at it.

 

[SuperAmp13]

Nope! Not one instance. If something that potentially catastrophic was a problem it would have happened already and it would be a huge topic on every motorcycle forum. Even if you run leaded gas, (which you should not with a cat in a modern engine designed to run unleaded) you'd have to run a large amount for years. In order to melt the honeycombs cataylist in the exhaust the exhaust temps would probably need to remain higher than 1400 degree which is the max cylinder temp. Normal cylinder operating temp is well below that and exhaust gas even lower. I really doubt that Kawasaki has been designing a POS bike for 30 years and been successful at it.

Nice. Well this is definitely making me feel much more comfortable about going forward with these mods. I've only had the slip on for 2 days now and need to desperately get the baffle for it. I'm already pissing off neighbors.