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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so i was watching motovlogs about people trying out bigger bikes when all they had ever ridden was a 250r and i came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF1ezf8LNNU

it caught my eye because it said "rider risk" and i thought it was some dumbass saying countersteering was dangerous... and then he proceeds to say that you CAN use the front brake in a turn if necessary with a good amount of counter steering involved. right now i'm thinking to myself "this guy's a dumbass.." but then i think to myself... what if i HAVE to brake in a turn... i know the back brake is OK if you need to, but now this guy is saying front brake is OK...

True or false?

Personally.. i would think no because the back wheel is bigger, and if you lose traction in the front wheel you're ****ed, so it's better not to try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
i suppose the most important question that can logically follow this post.. what's the best thing to do in a situation where you need to brake in a turn?... a flick of the bike to try and avoid an obstacle?.. or an attempted halt. I'm going to assume a flick of the bike until someone can show give me reasonable evidence as to why braking would be better since i can't think of a situation where braking would actually save you when you're already in a turn

btw.. what happens when your back wheel loses traction due to braking in a turn.. i remember seeing something a few years back on some television show where a guy lost traction on his back wheel in a race. and then when it relocked traction - the bike wobbled like mad and threw him off into a tree or something
 

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L1felock said:
i suppose the most important question that can logically follow this post.. what's the best thing to do in a situation where you need to brake in a turn?... a flick of the bike to try and avoid an obstacle?.. or an attempted halt. I'm going to assume a flick of the bike until someone can show give me reasonable evidence as to why braking would be better since i can't think of a situation where braking would actually save you when you're already in a turn

btw.. what happens when your back wheel loses traction due to braking in a turn.. i remember seeing something a few years back on some television show where a guy lost traction on his back wheel in a race. and then when it relocked traction - the bike wobbled like mad and threw him off into a tree or something
Called a high side in that situation its about throttle control not brake control !
 

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i suppose the most important question that can logically follow this post.. what's the best thing to do in a situation where you need to brake in a turn?...
Braking in a turn is always a question with multiple scenarios and multiple answers. First, braking is not always about stopping but also slowing down. It all depends on what you are doing (slowing down, stopping, emergency braking). Racing and street riding are different, however the braking techniques are the same.

For slowing down in a curve...
You should establish your entry speed BEFORE you enter the curve. Try to eliminate all excess approach speed, with braking if necessary, while still traveling in a straight line and while the bike is sitting up. You should NOT have to deal with a changing center of gravity that results from weight shifts that are caused by changes of acceleration or braking while in a curve. You want maximum control of your bike through the turn, you want your front tire to be able to handle modest bumps and road distortions without destabilizing your bike so you want to shift some weight to the rear tire. You should move back as far as possible in your seat to shift weight to the rear tire.

If you do have to use your brakes in a curve for modest deceleration then which one to use first? Front, rear, or both? The front brake tends to shorten the wheelbase. It both quickens your steering and straightens the turn (makes it wider.) The rear brake, by itself, tends to lengthen the wheelbase and lower the center of gravity, which helps provide better stability while leaned over. The clear choice, then, is use of the rear brake by itself unless you need to aggressively slow down (in which case you would use both together.) However you never want to be too aggressive with braking in a curve. You need to know how your brakes on your bike react to inputs at certain speeds. Normally the front brake provide more braking power than the rear. This is one reason why practicing is so important.



....btw.. what happens when your back wheel loses traction due to braking in a turn..
You either skid (low-side), and possibly even a high-side when traction if regained. Use of either the front or rear brake in an overly aggressive manner, can cause this. Some very experienced racers skid on purpose in certain turns. skid (drift)

Too much front brake can cause the front of the bike to dive and the rear of the bike to lift up, reducing the traction at the rear wheel. Often times the front half of the bike is being slowed down much faster than back, so the rear is sort of catching up to and passing the front.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
so it seems that braking in a curve is a pretty dangerous/advanced technique... I'd like to teach myself, but i don't want to down my bike, and i don't have a closed course that i can practice on.

Luckily, i suppose it really isn't all that important to learn since i'm on city streets 99 percent of the time, but when my time comes to blaze through some twisties, i'd really like to have the skill to brake w/o crashing
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
something one of the motovloggers said that i was watching last night.. was that you're probably not going to lose traction in a turn unless you're already at a full lean angle... is this true?

He mentions how the #1 cause of accidents on a motorcycle is cornering/turning (which i know to be true.. they taught that in the training course) because a lot of people end up braking in a turn when it is completely unecessary. I catch myself going into turns faster than i think is OK quite often, but i make sure to stay loose and plow through the turn. If true, knowing this could probably prevent a lot of crashes and help alleviate the tension you get when you feel that you're in danger
 

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If depends on lean angle, center of gravity, speed, road surface, rider reaction, bike to ground feedback, tire traction, temperature, angle of deceleration, and experience. You can brake in a turn. I do it from time to time but you must be used sparingly. If you are in a lean angle where the suspension is in compression. You have more tire bite but you lose momentum. Which can cause a lowside crash. The way you ride into a curve greatly affects the center of gravity on a bike. You ever see a bike crash where the rider falls off but the bike keeps driving? Its due to center of gravity. Ride using counter steer but most of you lean angle should come from your legs and feet. This can be seen when someone is entering a turn hot they hit the brakes and start to enter the turn wobbling thus making them unsure about the next curve and entering to slowly. This takes time to learn but since everyone on this forum likes to talk about race teams. Anyone ever wonder why ppl lean when taking a curve. Its to keep the center of gravity centered on the bike thus making it stable. Some of you say its so they can gauge the lean angle. Id say your very wrong and you should do your research on when knee pucks came into play. It was long after leaning on bikes!!! You wanna brake in curves. Its possible. Just need to be stable and use it not loosing momentum in the curve and you will be fine. I dont suggest doing this on cold days, wet day, on cheap tires,
 

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It's obviously best to avoid the need to brake in the middle of a turn if you can. Your tires can only give maximum traction in one direction at a time. If you are at, or close to, the traction limit when leaned-over you have very little left to use for slowing the wheel. Any abrupt action will overwhelm the grip at that point. You can add some braking when leaned over - but not much - and it better be applied smoothly and progressively.

I've only had to do a significant amount of braking mid-corner once in my 30+ years of street riding. It was a dumba** move on my part, and I got into a corner way over my head. I was confident I had too much speed for that corner, I was cranked over as much as I felt I could be, and felt the best option was to scrub off some speed. It's the only time I've ever heard my front tire squeal while cornering. I remember at the time thinking "what the **** is that sound". Took a few seconds to register.

I've always (still do) use a full sport (sticky) tire on the front of every street bike I've owned since the 80s, and I feel it saved me that day.

As far as the rear brake in that situation - I don't recommend it. The most common result is a locked wheel that immediately steps out. You will either "low side" ("had to lay 'er down..." ), or you'll slide then catch and "high side" - neither of which is a good option.

On the race track a common braking technique is "trail braking" where you carry your braking into the lean instead of braking only before turning in. It works there, but that's a controlled environment with more predictable traction.

Many times smoothly avoiding something is a better option that trying to stop. Remember to set your speed BEFORE entering the corner and leave plenty of extra traction for unexpected events.


Jay
 

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You can run a small amount of front brake into the corner not a problem just don't grab a handful !
Don't bigger bikes have quite a lot of that......
Engine brake......:whistling:
That's what I use......
NNnnnn.... I can skid that back break a bit if needed more.....
I know.....skidding looses traction, but it happens








 

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You can watch a video on you tube that i came across once. Its called twist of the wrist Hes really big on counter steering but gives some good techinique pointers. This video was made at the tail of the dragon
 

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I've watched it twice, I find it really helps. Second time I watched it , saw stuff I didn't catch the first time, probably watch it again.
AHHHhhhhh.... u must really-really be bored......
Maybe u need a new boyfriend....
:whistling: :whistling: :whistling: :whistling: :whistling: :whistling:

Now there's some funny shit right there it is it is....
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:








 
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